By Dale Bartscher, Executive Director The Family Heritage Alliance
SB 161 – Discrimination Bill FAILED on the Senate Floor on 2/23/2011 with a vote of 25 to 9 and it is GONE 🙂
This bill was endorsed and promoted by Equality South Dakota (South Dakota’s largest pro-homosexual organization). They were literally using our ‘Veterans and Military Members’ to advance their own not-so-hidden agenda. It was clear in committee last week, in proponent testimony, that the intent of this bill was to add “sexual orientation” and “gender identity” to our SD anti-discrimination statutes “in the future”.
SB 161 was nothing more than a Trojan Horse Bill. They attempted to ride the bootstraps of our Veterans. This was wrong and our Legislators … WITH YOUR HELP … saw right through it – testifying to the fact that this bill was totally unnecessary.
Please take a moment to CLICK HERE and personally thank your Senator if he/or she voted NO on SB 161. Here’s the list of these wonderful 25 NO votes:
SENATORS: Brown, Gray, Heineman, Hunhoff (Jean), Krebs, Nelson (Tom), Olson (Russell), Rampelberg, Schiekeway, Tieszen, Begalka, Fryslie, Hansen (Tom), Holien, Johnston, Lederman, Novstrup (Al), Rave, Garnos, Haverly, Kraus, Maher, Nygaard, Rhoden, Tidemann.
Editor’s Note: Special thanks to Pastor Dale Bartscher for this report and for his tireless work in support of family values in South Dakota. God Bless You, Dale.
“you’ve reached an all time low in your juvenile attempts to lend credence to your self-serving effort to water down our Constitution to suit your own selfish needs.”
Struck a nerve, did I?
You struck the bottom, that’s all.
Apparently that’s where you reside.
I know you were here first, but move over. I need some elbow room!
If Inde is Jewish why does he care what jesus said. I believe Mosaic law had alot to say about homosexuality, didnt it ?
Leviticus 18:22 (NKJV) comes to mind: “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.”
Anyone can pull one sentence out of the Tanakh and use it to pass sweeping judgement on a complex issue such as gay rights. What did Jesus say about homosexuality? If He represented a new covenant between God and man, what direction does He offer on this subject? If He supplanted the Tanakh (Old Testament) how can you use it to defend your position? It’s illogical and disingenuous to “cherry pick” from the Tanakh only what you need to line up with your personal beliefs, while disregarding the rest in favor of the “New Testament.”
I’m referencing Jesus because I’m discussing this with Christians.
I pulled a verse from the Tanakh (the Old Testament to Christians). Does that mean that verse is not relevent? Is it not in your Tanakh? Is it not specific? It’s not cherry picking, it’s quoting from your own text! I’m thinking that verse is really troublesome for you. As to whether Jesus Christ said or didn’t say on your gay rights issue, you will have to wait until He returns to ask. He didn’t comment on deficit spending or K12 education funding either. Jesus did not “supplant” the Tanakh, He fulfilled it.
Inde;
I am not defending my/our position, I am asking why you care about the “new covenant” “jesus” or anything from the new testament. Based on an earlier comment (in another post) from you that you are a Jew.
p.s. It seems old testament Jews would have delt harshly, as did Jehova, with homosexuals. why be critical of those who feel the same way today ? please layout the correct way, and give the references for your position, OK ?
Jews aren’t like Christians. We believe God left blessed us with the tools to figure things out for ourselves. Some Jews are prone to interpreting scripture literally. But that’s really not very practical, we can’t be stoning people to death anymore for relatively minor offenses. Times change, and people change. They’re is no pat answer for complex isues like gay rights. Some Jews have allowed female Rabbis and gays to serve for years, some forbid it. Here’s a pretty good article on the subject. Personally I find it very difficult to remove the person from the lifestyle. I believe there are gay persons who would make outstanding Rabbis, Priests, and any other spiritual leader. I am not opposed to the practice.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/07/us/07jews.html
“We believe God left blessed us with the tools to figure things out for ourselves.” Say what? Everyone makes up the rules for themselves? Ok, what “tools” are you talking about?
Now you’re just putting words in my mouth, or trying to. I believe, as many Jews do that God doesn’t interfere with the day to day activites of our lives. We have minds (tools) and are capable of making choices. And to a certain degree everyone does “make up the rules for themselves.” Lutherans believe it’s OK with God if gays are ordained, so do some Jews. Mormons used to believe God wanted them to marry several women and have children with all of them.
How many Christian denominations are there world wide? Many thousands, and each one thinks they know the rules according to God. And then there’s Catholics, the most powerful and influential Christian church on the planet. Their Pope publicly states they are the only true church of Christ.
God doesn’t “interfere” in anything. He is God. He loves all of us and wants us to love Him and each other. You are the one who criticises others and their relationship with God. Perhaps you should read some of the stuff you write and consider some toleration and respect for the beliefs of others.
Inde; The only choices we have are – follow Gods laws or not, laws that God gave the jews, to give to the whole world. Lev 20 vs13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
I dont have the “tools” to interpret that verse any other way than what it says, homosexuality is an abomination, do you ?
Do you follow it or not ?
Personally I do. I also refrain from judging and persecuting those who don’t. If you truly believe God will pass judgment on homosexuals one day. then how can you have any say in the matter? I do not believe anyone should interpret the Tanakh literally. If we did we’d still be stoning people to death for minor offenses.
In yoiu are a Christian then you must follow the teachings of Jesus, in particular the Sermon on the Mount, and forgive anyone who not only trepasses against you, but also those who sin. Jesus is very clear on this. You are to refrain from judgement of others, and forgive everyone, no matter how difficult or impossible that may seem. Forgiveness is the crux of Christianity.
I am a Christian then, but we ALL fall short, even you Inde.
Your position is that you get to define “God,” and determine His rules and laws. and those who see Him differently than you are wrong. The New Testament is filled with hundreds of hypocrosies, as is the Tanakh. We all must learn to be tolerant of eash others beliefs, and to forgive each other. A good start for Fundamentalists might be to back off on challenging the Establishment Clause. God doesn’t need any help from the American government to compell or force adherence to His word, and our Founder’s clearly understood this. The majority of Americans are opposed to your insistence on using government to further your religion, not your religion. We have to be, we’re Americans, and we believe in our Constitution.
I don’t define God. God is not definable in human terms. I appreciate the fact that in your world should bow to your wishes. Unfortunately for you, that will not happen. I serve God, not you. Tolerant??? You are the antithesis of tolerant!!! Don’t you dare preach to me from the pit. You stand for nothing but to control others. Oh, listen America, Inde is pronouncing what the majority believes.
Exactly right. God is not defineable. So why do men (like you and me) end up disagreeing on how to follow or serve Him?
So you serve something you can’t define? No wonder men like you have been killing and dying in the “name of God” for centuries. When will you act on Jesus’ teachings and practice forgiveness for everyone? It’s the only way you’ll ever break the cycle of revenge and hatred you now practice.
I serve God. You serve yourself. I have killed no one. You strive to drag others into the pit where you live. I hate no one. Do you?
I live in a pit? OK, moving right along. I don’t hate anyone either. And I apparently forgive on a much more frequent basis than you. How is it a Jew is able to be more “Christian” than a Christian? Maybe you missed something along the way?
President Obama just ordered his Administration’s Justice Department to stop defending the constitutionality of the 1996 federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which essentially defines marriage as between a man and a woman, and protects states from being required to recognize same-sex partnerships as marriage.
If something is deemed unsconstituional on the federal level, anything we do on the state level which contradicts this becomes irrellevant, as it will assuredly be challenged and struck down on appeal at the federal level. I can understand your unwillingness to change with the times, but your unwarranted fear of those who are dfferent than you defies not only your alleged Christian values, but logic itself.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/6452-president-orders-government-to-stop-defending-marriage-law
So because President Obama says so, you bow down before his great judgment? Marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. There is no change to this.
Allowing others to marry won’t change anything between you and a woman. And ultimately it’s going to be the U.S. Supreme Court deciding what’s constitutional and what isn’t in this matter. We all know what that ruling is going to be.
I voted for McCain by the way.
WRONG…………The ULTIMATE authority is God. He has decided this issue. The Supreme Court can, and has, made mistakes. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob does not err or change.
This is why one reason our Founders conceived the Establishment Clause, so our government couldn’t circumvent the democratic process by declaring,”God is the ultimate authority.” Given the differing beliefs of men, the Founders were accutely aware of the propensity for differing religious beliefs of men to bring forth extremely volatile emotions and ultimately conflict, often times violent in nature. There are many ways to interpret scripture, and our Founders were certainly relying on our past record of perpetrating great evil on others “In the name of God.”
Just for fun, why don’t you quote some scriture you believe says, “Gays can’t serve in our military.” How about “Gay persons cannot marry.” And “Gay people can’t serve God in any official capacity.” (Lutherans allow gay clergy) Or, “Our Chritisan denomination is the only true church of Christ. (Cathoics believe this)
I know you’ll have to refer to the Tanakh on the gay rights issue because Jesus never said a word either way about homosexuality.
God IS the ultimate authority. If you know the scripture regarding homosexuality from the Tanakh, then read it. Because Jesus did not speak to this issue doesn’t mean that homosexuality or gay marriage is ok. Jesus didn’t speak about space travel either or the shape to be used for man-holes in streets.
He also didn’t say the fundamentalist position is any more accurate than mainstream Christian beliefs. I agree, God is the ultimate authority. But in this country the Supreme Court is the ultimate Constitutional authority.
Your’e using double-speak about Jesus complete disregard for judging homosexuality. It’s wide open. The fact is He didn’t make his feelings known means anyone who wishes to can assume Jesus would not condemn homosexuals, and there’s no evidence or scripture to the contrary, only the estimates of men. Like the Christians who allow gay clergy to serve God in their churches.
Thanks for the fine representation of flawed, wishy-washy, it’s-ok-if-it-feels-good thinking. Your rules and morality change by the minute. God never changes.
The “God” of Abraham became three entities according to Christians. As in the name of the ” Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” If that’s not change, a definition for the word doesn’t even exist.
There is only one God. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the trinity…..three “persons” one God.
I do not believe in the Trinity, never have never will. Not only is it a fantastic concept, it was thoroughly examined then dismissed by my ancestors, the people God chose, many thousands of years ago. I think you lack empathy for the Jewish people. Imagine if you will, a new version of Christianity were to form, an alleged continuation of your current faith, carried out by a member of your faith. After your leaders conferred and reserached the events surrounding the formation of this new belief your Christian elders determined it was false. That’s what happend to Judaism a little over two thousand years ago.
Remember, without us you wouldn’t exist.
Your opinion of my beliefs and the beliefs of Christians is of no import to me. I have said before that I respect your Jewish faith and beliefs. You should consider respecting mine.
I respect yours to the point where you begin circumventing our Constitution by attempting to bring your religious convictions into the political arena and our government. I’m with you up to that point.
You respect others only until you don’t. I see. They have street signs that describe you……..one way.
For the umpteenth time, it’s not your partucular religion, but any religion. The Constitution forbids anyone from injecting their religious beliefs into the government of the people. I’d vehemently oppose an effort to bring the Jewish faith into our government.
For the mega-umpteenth time, I don’t want a government religion, I want government OUT of religion.
I’m beginning to believe you are a disingenous snake oil selling con-man. If Jesus were here he’d admonish you and tell you to stop pretending you’re acting on His behalf, in His faith. You are the one circumventing the Constitution, bringing your religion into our government. Then you present a disingenuous spin, trying to come off in the poor oppressed victim’s role, claiming the goverment is tying to suppress your church and interfere with your freedom to worship. It’s no different than comitting a crime then crying “police harassment.” You’ve reached in your juvenile attempts to lend credence to your self-serving effort to water down our Constitution to suit your own selfish needs.
But no worries, I forgive you.
Wow……now you know what Jesus would do!!! Your forgiveness is not sought nor required so go hawk it somewhere else.
Christians must forgive everyone, even their most bitter enemies. Jesus commanded you to do so, it’s the crux of His teachings. He asked God to forgive the very men who killed him on the cross, while he was on the cross as an example to you. He has commanded you in the Sermon on the Mount and thorughout all of his teachings to unconditionally forgive everyone. Yet you refuse to hear Him. Nothing is more clear in your scriptures, than the mandatory acts of love and forgiveness Jesus instructs you to impose on all. Yet you ignore the teachings of Jesus. You dismiss it, saying you’re “not perfect.” You are chosing to go against the teachings of your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. What price will you pay?
What do you know of Christ? You have no relationship with Him. Do you hear Him? Do you believe in anything but yourself? What do you know of forgiveness and love? When Jesus opens the eyes of your heart, I will rejoice in your salvation and you will also.
Do you actually think forgiveness and love is available only to Christians? Be serious. I’ve read the words of Jesus in the “New Testament,” and recognized His universal message of love and forgiveness long ago. But not his alleged divinity, because it’s simply not true. You will come to know this one day. Until then, keep striving to be more like your Christ. It’s better than doing nothing.
What do you know of forgiveness? Your vitriol and judgment flows from you continually. For the record, Jesus Christ is God. Just because you don’t accept Him as God doesn’t make it true. You will come to know this one day. Until then, keep striving to be more like Him.
I believe I am already more like Him than you are. But then, Jesus was a Jew….